Dwarven Machinist Feedback

Nope, just me misunderstanding the design/build rules.

Ok I like the prof for a starter construct though I’m concerned it’s a bit of a must have.
So to make sure I understand it right, at first level you start with 14k and each level you improve it by another 7k for free. But if it dies you have to rebuild it at full cost.
Is that right?

No, that wasn’t my intent. I’ll have to polish up the language! I was very unclear.
The intent was:

  1. If you take the proficiency at first level, you start with 7K
  2. If you take the proficiency at a higher level, you start with an additional 7K per level
  3. If it is destroyed you can rebuild it at full cost without having to roll.
  4. There is no “free upgrade” between levels.
    EXAMPLE: Grimgear, a 1st level dwarven machinist, selects Personal Automaton at level 1. He begins play with a personal automaton worth 7,000gp. Over the course of many adventurers, he advances to level 2, and then again to level 3. His personal automaton is still worth 7,000gp. During his most recent adventure the automaton was destroyed. Meanwhile, he advanced to level 4. At the end of the adventure, he decides to rebuild his automaton. At this time, he could do one of several things. He could re-build his old automaton. This would cost 3,500gp (7,000gp to build, reduced by half because he has a sample). He could design a new personal automaton, at a cost of 7,000gp to 28,000gp. If he designs a new automaton, he’ll then have to build it, at a cost of 7,000 to 28,000gp. Either way, he doesn’t have to roll.
    So the benefit is not nearly so great as what you thought. I hope it’s not a “must have”; if it is, I may need to adjust.

I mislike the 7k/level thing as it introduces a “should I take it now because it’s awesome, or wait at least till lvl 2 so it’s twice as good” question. Very minmaxy.

OK. Perhaps it should just be a flat 7K, then. Good but not Ah-mah-zing.

Being able to upgrade it would be nice, though.
So if the third level machinist has 3k to spare, they could upgrade their automaton to a 10k version?

If you take a proficiency at L1 it should provide some continuing benefit all the way up to max level. All this proficiency does (from what I can see) is allow you to begin play with a ‘pet’ automaton worth 7k, and have a sample in the event of a destruction. The extra 7k per level is not attractive because of treasure acquisition.
That may well be worth it at Level 1, because it’s like having a ‘free’ henchman to do stuff. However, as you advance in levels and start to acquire filthy filthy lucre, I’m losing the sense that the proficiency is worth having. You can build and design your own automata, and downtime exists for other classes anyway, so why not you…
I could easily be wrong, but what’s the practical long term benefit?

Y’know James, I have to agree with you. The automaton is nice for shoring up the low level mechinist, but at higher levels, he/she is probably building something nicer. Now something that shores up low level characters is not in anyway a bad thing, so I see the niche that this proficiency has.
prototype00

Re:Demoss and upgrading.
Yeah I was asking about this a couple of posts back. It would be really nice to have the ability to upgrade existing automatons (maybe by just adding the requisite amount of money into the construction). That would make the personal automaton so much more flavorful.
prototype00

Also: since it’s /supposed/ to be constantly tinkered with, being able to switch special abilities with a week of work (?) might be neat.

I would suggest that by taking the proficiency, the character may create personal automatons, with the following conditions:

The character may only have one personal automaton at a time.
Rolls to design and build personal automatons are always successful.
Personal automatons may only be sold at scrap value, and may not be controlled by anyone other than the creator.
Designs for personal automatons cost 7,000gp less, with the equivalent reductions in design time and library needs. As a consequence, the finished design can only be used by the creator, and only to build a personal automaton. This represents the character making incomplete and undocumented designs for personal use.
Build times and workshop requirements for a personal automaton are calculated as if they were 7,000gp less. As a consequence, the personal automaton requires daily maintenance of at least 1 turn per day, to represent the constantly unfinished state. If the maintenance is not performed, the automaton is nonfunctional until 3d6 turns are spent returning it to working order.
The character may disassemble their personal automaton for up to 50% of the unadjusted build cost in materials. This takes 1 day per 1,000gp of returned value. These materials may only be used in the construction of another personal automaton.
When the proficiency is first taken, the character immediately gains a personal automaton of their own design worth 7,000gp.

Taken together, these benefits don’t provide a greater benefit if the proficiency is taken later, and they provide an “upgrade” path by slightly repurposing the mechanic of getting a reduction for having a sample. Unlike having a sample, the reduced cost does not speed up build time. At higher levels, the reduced cost bonuses still provide a 1 week reduction in both design and build time, and reduce the library/workshop needs (which make it easier to get more time reductions, if desired). I don’t think it would be so good that it would be a requirement, but for an adventuring Machinist (as opposed to a more mercantile one), it would let them build newer and slightly better automatons more often.

This sounds like a decent take.

Virgil, that’s brilliant. Thanks for the insight - I think that’s the path to go!

Am I missing a stone weight on the machinists tools. With the list it would weigh more than thieves tools. But would it replace theives tools for the throws as the fiddly bits to repair an construct would be interchangeable to pick locks. Are the machinists tools needed to repair the construct on adventure.

a question about the dwarf machinist template, was Personal automaton added after the templates where built, i would see a nice spot for that prof. to be added to the 17-18 Articifer maybe in place of magical engineer or collegiate wizardry.

Does the Fly special ability assume the ability to hover, or is that an additional ability?

Chicory: Machinist’s tools are required to make proficiency throws to design, build, and repair automatons. Machinist’s tools weigh one stone.
This has been updated in the rules.

If an automaton can hover while flying, it counts as 2 special abilities.
This has been updated in the rules.

What do y’all think about automaton “seeing” or “scrying” to a lens or orb or something what it sees and hears. How would you handle that. I’m thinking about a tiny spiderbot or hummingbirdbot kinda thing and trying to get it under 7k for a personal

One thing that has come across in my game is that the machinist has no interest in building automatons. Rather, he is building tools for the party. Right now my game is pursuing a sea theme (Against the Sahauguin! as it were). After gathering up some poisoned sea urchin quills, the machinist made some javalins to pass around. Seeing how fast the foes swim, he cut off some fins from the dead sahauguin and made swim fins for the party.
I’ve been running this as kind of impromptu magic item creation; the items work for one use then fall appart.