Adventurer Conqueror King v13 Rules Discussion

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Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10
Adventurer Conqueror King v13 Rules Discussion

Later today we'll be uploading v13 of the rules. You can use an MS Word "compare" to find the changes; they mostly consist in making the fixes that you have all brought to my attention. Two other notable changes are the addition of the "% In Lair" data for all monsters as well as the terms of our OGL and Brand licenses.

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Version 13 is now available.

Kalt
Adventurer Conqueror King Contributor
Joined: 2011-07-07 15:43

I can't find the mortal wounds table. Can someone tell me where I can find it please?

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Oh, drat. The mortal wounds table is in a separate document! We'll get that up for download ASAP.

Ryan
Dwimmermount Backer
Joined: 2011-06-30 00:28

I put it up as a separate download - you can find it alongside the main download.

Fabio Milito Pa...
Patreon SupporterAdventurer Conqueror King BackerDomains At War BackerSinister Stone of Sakkara BackerLairs And Encounters BackerBarbarian Conquerors of Kanahu ContributorACKS Heroic Fantasy Handbook Contributor
Joined: 2011-07-10 16:06

very nice

Fabio Milito Pa...
Patreon SupporterAdventurer Conqueror King BackerDomains At War BackerSinister Stone of Sakkara BackerLairs And Encounters BackerBarbarian Conquerors of Kanahu ContributorACKS Heroic Fantasy Handbook Contributor
Joined: 2011-07-10 16:06

a question on proficiencies (I like them I must say... I love that the game is Saving Throw based :) one of my pet peeves):
questions:
a) if you don't have a proficiency can you attempt to use it (are there some that can be attempted and other that cannot be)?
b) if you have a similar profency can you attempt another one with a penalty?
c) does class profency have a bonus for character of that class?
proposal:
1) I would like to have a clear table of profency save
2) I would like to have a -4 penalty for unknow profency and a -2 for similar one
3) better yet (one of my idea for my dnd retroclone) I would have done 5 class of profency (say: nature, athletic, knowledge, social, manuality/artisan) and have given table for each class like in saving throw associated each profency to one of this skill save and said that if you had one you would roll with no penaly for similar half penalty and for no profency full penalty (something similar to weapon profency of AD&D)

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Fabio, I'm glad you like the "saving throw" mechanic we used as the core of the system.
To answer your questions:
a) If you don't have a proficiency, you can't attempt to use it. That said, anything and everything that a D&D character could normally do is covered under the "Adventuring" proficiency. You don't need a proficiency to ride a horse, light a torch, sketch a crude map, rig up a tent, and so on. The proficiency system was built such that if you didn't want to use it at all, you could ignore it, and the game just plays like old school D&D.
b) There's no particular provision for that, but a GM could certainly permit.
c) Only classes can take a class proficiency at all, so there's no bonus.
As far as your proposals, I'd love to hear what the other playtesters and patrons think. Do you like the proficiency system? Would you want it turned into a true "skill system", or do you prefer it in its present light-weight form? Should there be rules added for using proficiencies you don't have? etc.

Veketshian
Adventurer Conqueror King ContributorPlayer's Companion ContributorDomains At War Contributor
Joined: 2011-07-10 01:52

I agree with Fabio that the proficiencies are quite pleasant. From my viewpoint having only learned 3.5, I like that there isn't a difference between "skills" and "feats", and it was becoming one of my hangups that skills were considered worth much less than feats.
Could it be possible to add rules for creating proficiencies be part of the Character Companion? That way, all the "so you want to deviate from the core stuff? Here's how" will be rolled up in one book. It's my understanding that taking a stab at creating other classes similar to the bard and assassin are detailed in the Character Companion rather than encouraged straight from the core rulebook itself.
As far as Fabio's suggestions are concerned, it's been my impression that more is left up to the GM's discretion in earlier editions than later editions, so I don't feel the need to add a mandatory -4 to attempting a proficiency. I'm OK with the GM either going for that, bumping it up to a -8, or just saying "no" to the attempt. I am, however, very interested in anything that improves the readability and comprehension of the document. More tables! Tables seem to really keep the information at a glance without necessarily negating paragraphs of text.

sean wills
Joined: 2011-07-07 19:39

On Hit Points, Death and Unconsciousness -
There's an inconsistency in the wording of what happens at O HP or lower -
In the char gen section:
'When a character, or any other being, is reduced to 0 or fewer hit points, he has been slain.'
But then in the combat section:
'When a creature’s hit points drop to 0 or fewer, the creature is unconscious and possibly dead.' - calling for a roll on the Mortal Wounds table for characters.
Maybe the wording in the char gen section should be changed to say 'he has been mortally wounded' ?

Fabio Milito Pa...
Patreon SupporterAdventurer Conqueror King BackerDomains At War BackerSinister Stone of Sakkara BackerLairs And Encounters BackerBarbarian Conquerors of Kanahu ContributorACKS Heroic Fantasy Handbook Contributor
Joined: 2011-07-10 16:06

I am all for a light system, that's the reason I suggest an indication on using other skills (otherwise people will not try something and just look at the skill list) I would also trim down the skill list.
another question: what about weapon profency?
a request: I don't really understand what is the skill progression can we have a table?
about DEATH and wounds:
I love it :)

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Veketshian - I (obviously) concur that there doesn't need to be a skill/feat distinction. Rolling both up into proficiencies was my goal.
I could certainly include some notes on creating proficiencies in the Character Companion. That's a good idea. The Character Companion does have complete rules for creating character classes - to which all of the existing classes are backwards compatible.
Regarding tables - It would be great to get suggestions on where in the text you think a table would be helpful. It sounds like Proficiencies is one area. Others?
Regarding HP - Great catch. The language under Characters is holdover from prior editions.
Fabio, regarding weapon proficiencies - There are currently not any. Characters can use the weapons that they learn to use from their class. However, there is a Cleric Class Proficiency that expands the range of permitted weapons. I could add a Thief and Mage Class Proficiency that does something similar, if there's demand for it.

Fabio Milito Pa...
Patreon SupporterAdventurer Conqueror King BackerDomains At War BackerSinister Stone of Sakkara BackerLairs And Encounters BackerBarbarian Conquerors of Kanahu ContributorACKS Heroic Fantasy Handbook Contributor
Joined: 2011-07-10 16:06

I have to make some test and read more deeply in the test... but don't create too many proficency or too good ones, with so little profencies if there are too good ones there will be must take and this is not good
e.g. how can a mage pass on the opportunity to control undead? how can a fighter pass the possibility to make much more damage? but if there are must take it's a problem maybe they should have a different mechanic, just my two cent :)

Fabio Milito Pa...
Patreon SupporterAdventurer Conqueror King BackerDomains At War BackerSinister Stone of Sakkara BackerLairs And Encounters BackerBarbarian Conquerors of Kanahu ContributorACKS Heroic Fantasy Handbook Contributor
Joined: 2011-07-10 16:06

a few comments on things that I like a lot
High level spells: perfect hit :)
Formulas for items: I like it, why don't have only formula for building magical object instead o requiring a spell? another thing is there any limit to the number of formulas that a mage can know? how much space take a formula in a grimoire?

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Glad you like the "ritual spells" approach!
In the current rules, formula don't have any limit in the grimoire. Do you think they ought to be limited?

Veketshian
Adventurer Conqueror King ContributorPlayer's Companion ContributorDomains At War Contributor
Joined: 2011-07-10 01:52

Sorry it took a while to get back to the forums. I wanted to address the concerns about tables in ACKS to help with comprehension, but after reading the character classes a bit more in-depth, I realized that there was not really a need to expand the tables, because if I had paid more attention to the tables themselves, I would have seen that information already displayed. Hopefully, not many players will make the same mistake I did.

blizack
Joined: 2011-07-16 15:35

Is the idea for us to comment strictly on the rules themselves, or should we also be on the lookout for grammar and spelling mistakes? I'm a few pages into v13 and have already found several.

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

If you catch grammar and spelling mistakes, please let us know! While we tried to put the document into a readable format prior to sharing it, it's being continuously updated and mistakes do creep in.
You can list them on this forum, or send us a redlined word doc, whatever is more convenient for you!

Veketshian
Adventurer Conqueror King ContributorPlayer's Companion ContributorDomains At War Contributor
Joined: 2011-07-10 01:52

Out of curiosity, do you have someone lined up as the editor for ACKS? I've only taken a graduate-level editing course, but I'll try to take a crack at pointing out mistakes with Word and Track Changes.

Fabio Milito Pa...
Patreon SupporterAdventurer Conqueror King BackerDomains At War BackerSinister Stone of Sakkara BackerLairs And Encounters BackerBarbarian Conquerors of Kanahu ContributorACKS Heroic Fantasy Handbook Contributor
Joined: 2011-07-10 16:06

NO I don't think that there should be a limit to formula, I would ask for formula even for item that duplicate known spells

Tavis
Joined: 2011-07-01 15:40

Veketshian, while we may have a dedicated editor at some later point in the process, right now your assistance would be invaluable! We are drawing near to the point where we'll send the pre-release edition we'll have at Gen Con to the printer, so your catching mistakes and infelicities will have an immediate effect on improving that version.

blizack
Joined: 2011-07-16 15:35

I'm happy to send along a modified Word document with the errors I've found highlighted. I've got no formal editing training, but did some proofreading & errata compiling for the (sort of) recent re-release of the old-school British fantasy RPG Dragon Warriors.

blizack
Joined: 2011-07-16 15:35

In the description of the thief class, there are references to doubling, tripling, and quadrupling "the normal damage" of a backstab. I have a few questions about this:
- Do you multiply the number of dice rolled, or do you multiply the number rolled on a single die (or whatever number of dice the weapon uses)? In other words, if a 5th level thief attacks with a weapon that does 1d6 damage, does the backstab inflict 1d6x3, or 3d6?
- Are Strength bonuses or magical item bonuses added before or after the multiplication?
- With which weapons may a thief backstab? Do they have to be in melee range? (In other words, could a thief "backstab" with a club? What about a bow? A thrown dagger?)
I know many of us will already have our own answers to these questions that we've brought with us from other games, but I'd like to know the authors' intent.

Artus
Adventurer Conqueror King Contributor
Joined: 2011-07-12 02:25

Hope this answers the backstab question.
Adventure Conqueror King system version 16
page 96
"DOUBLE DAMAGE
Whenever damage is doubled (from backstabbing or charging, for instance), multiply the standard damage roll by two. Bonuses to the damage roll, such as from magic or strength adjustments, are not doubled."

Whether that means roll 2d6 or (1d6)x2 I am unsure of, but I would favor 2d6.
I also assume from the existence of the sniping proficiency that a normal backstab will be with a melee weapon.

jedo
Adventurer Conqueror King ContributorDwimmermount BackerDomains At War BackerSinister Stone of Sakkara BackerLairs And Encounters Backer
Joined: 2011-07-07 17:26

(1d6)X2 would definitely be more 'swingy', makinng the backstab a bit more of a gamble for the thief. Making it 2d6 would make it a pretty dependable 6-8 points of damage most of the time, so the thief would have good motivation to always backstab if possible.

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Artus beat me to the punch!
Backstab is a melee weapon. Bonuses to the damage roll are not doubled. You need Sniping proficiency to use a ranged weapon.
We personally played with 1d6 doubling to 2d6, rather than 1d6 doubling to 1d6x2. I can make this more clear in the rules.

blizack
Joined: 2011-07-16 15:35

Ah, so this is partially an issue of me not getting to the part of the rules where it's explained.
I agree that doubling the dice rolled, rather than the number rolled on the dice, probably works better. I do like swingy mechanics, but that would probably discourage the use of the backstab ability.

Tavis
Joined: 2011-07-01 15:40

blizak has my email already I reckon but anyone who wants to send a modified/edited Word file can mail it to tavis.allison@gmail.com!