In another thread, Bargle asks for samples of some strongholds. I can attest we have a real need for samples of all kinds - for the text of the book, for the Gen Con demo, for use in playtests, etc.
Anyone who wants to put these together can be pretty much certain that they’ll see a lot of use, and we’ll gladly give you credit for the contribution. And going through the steps of making these up will also be a great way to learn the rules and catch any problems that come up through first-hand experience.
Reply to this thread or drop me an email at tavis@archon.co if you’re interested!
Man I would love me a sample type I, type II, and type III castle drawing with prices. I like building strongholds, but I don’t like counting doors and windows…it’s what arneson did right in the FFC and 0d&d, but was sadly missing from the gygax DMG. I need to be able just pull a generic stronghold off the shelf. Just as you have an awesome “average monthly profit” chart for merchant caravans (I don’t see myself selling each barrel of spice individually, though I’m glad it’s there for those who want it). I would love to have a generic stronghold. It’s important for me to be able to say, "ok. buy a 10,000gp sailing ship and you get 275gp per month in profit from trade. Leaving the option open of course for detailed arbitrage or what have you. But if my design is just to figure out how big an army two players can raise, I don’t want the nuts and bolts. If those generic rules could all be in the same place, that would be awesome as well. What would a simple wizards tower cost to build that would hold 6 apprentices and 12 men? Including engineer costs? Or perhaps a primer on drawing simple stronghold plans? Is it just like drawing a small dungeon? Level 1, 2, 3?
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/photocqx.jpg/
A young sorcerer with 64,000gp burning a hole in his pocket (80% of 80,000xp requirement)
above is the link to a small dungeon that I believe costs 30,855gp to create (based on 500gp per 10x10 dungeon corridor as described in ACKs) not including the 500gp (2 months) of engineer costs. It’s basically a 50x70 dungeon room connected by secret passages and a short hallway to another 30x50 room with a foyer of 20x30 connected to both and a stairwell. All the costs of doors and secret doors I reduced by 25% as they were built during the initial phase of construction (am I reading that rule correctly?)
My intention for this small dungeon was for a youngish wizard with a limited budget to have a place to put some monsters, or perhaps to have the 30x50 room function as a laboratory to conduct experiments that were best not done out in the open.
how many monsters could I put down there? How many different types?
I believe BtB I cannot build this dungeon in a civilized area, correct? I’m reminded of the “angry villager” rule from the LLB’s, would this be a good way of disuading players from building dungeons in civilized areas, or should the GM just say, “no you can’t”
2a) what if the “civilized area” is part of a chaotic domain?
2b) Does a haunted crypt in a graveyard break the rule in ACKs that says, “no dungeon in civilized areas”? What if at the bottom of the haunted crypt is a 7th level necromancer, could that count as his domain if he built a 15,000gp manse adjacent?
What happens if I build a 15,000gp tower–as I said my wizards short on gold, in a borderland? 15,000gp is only enough to build a domain stronghold in a civilized area.
What if this 7th level sorcerer is a vassal to a more powerful wizard, is this 15,000gp tower sufficient to protect the land? Does this effect #3 or #2b?
Not entirely sure if this is the sort of examples you’re looking for, but I’ll add the process of construction of one Kruonmen:
Based on clearing of the initial domain next to a river, the Kruonivor, I set out looking for castles designed around that defensive feature to base it upon. Ran across a very useful map: http://www.planetware.com/i/map/NI/carrickfergus-castle-map.jpg
(I’d upload the simplified version I sketched out on graph paper, but it’s a more than a tad smudged and faded after months of abuse)
This, happily, had some additional info to go with it concering its construction in stages, which is a good idea to consider for new domain holders working on a budget: http://www.doeni.gov.uk/niea/carrick_castle_info_for_teachers-6.pdf
Pricing the various stages:
---- Stage 1 ----
Keep Only-- 90K, 180 days
Add inner ward + wooden palisade + moat + buildings --41K, 82 days
Castle total value: 131K
---- Stage 2 ----
Add middle ward + tower and gatehouse – 38K, 77 days
Castle total value: 169K
---- Stage 3 ----
Add outer ward + barbican – 55K, 110 days
Castle total value: 224K
Keep value is a bit more than the usual 75k due to the thicker walls involved, despite it being about 3/4ths the height, plus it also includes the 25% accessories markup on the table on pgs 113.
I put together a spreadsheet to calculate construction costs, with customization options available where appropriate. Just put in the quantity desired (or feet for customization) for each item and get total cost, total time (with accelerated construction options), engineers needed, and territory hexes secured. https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlFJwHeFC6pjdEpJNWkxVGZXdVQteTFWT1Framw0SlE
UNDERCRYPT: Your spreadsheet is great! We are (eventually) going to want to have a series of online tools uploaded to the website and would love to include your spreadsheet.
BARGLE: I love the way you tackle these issues. You are like a weaponized playtester of mass destruction. Answers below.
above is the link to a small dungeon that I believe costs 30,855gp to create (based on 500gp per 10x10 dungeon corridor as described in ACKs) not including the 500gp (2 months) of engineer costs. It’s basically a 50x70 dungeon room connected by secret passages and a short hallway to another 30x50 room with a foyer of 20x30 connected to both and a stairwell. All the costs of doors and secret doors I reduced by 25% as they were built during the initial phase of construction (am I reading that rule correctly?)
My intention for this small dungeon was for a youngish wizard with a limited budget to have a place to put some monsters, or perhaps to have the 30x50 room function as a laboratory to conduct experiments that were best not done out in the open.
how many monsters could I put down there? How many different types?
ALEX: If you are using the Sanctums/Dungeon rules, it looks like you’d only attract 1 or perhaps 2 lairs of monsters, depending whether the GM ruled that your corridor and staircase counted as rooms or not. Given that you made very large rooms, were I your GM I’d probably allow 2 lairs of monsters.
ALEX: That said, you could certainly put more monsters down there if, e.g., you charmed them, animated the dead, etc. The Sanctum/Dungeon rules are just meant to give naturalistic results for what might move in if you don’t otherwise interfere.
I believe BtB I cannot build this dungeon in a civilized area, correct? I’m reminded of the “angry villager” rule from the LLB’s, would this be a good way of disuading players from building dungeons in civilized areas, or should the GM just say, “no you can’t”
ALEX: The reason for not being able to build dungeons in civilized areas is that civilized areas are civilized by virtue of being low on monsters. However, in retrospect, the rules should probably provide for a lower rate of monster attraction, rather than simply ban it.
2a) what if the “civilized area” is part of a chaotic domain?
ALEX: I’m not sure. I suppose the dungeon would attract human freedom fighters. Those seem like they’d be the Wandering Monsters in a civilized chaotic area… Haha. Seriously, the answer is that (a) there’d still be a chance of attracting monsters, but a lower chance; and (b) which monsters showed up would depend on the GM’s wandering monster table for that area.
2b) Does a haunted crypt in a graveyard break the rule in ACKs that says, “no dungeon in civilized areas”? What if at the bottom of the haunted crypt is a 7th level necromancer, could that count as his domain if he built a 15,000gp manse adjacent?
ALEX: Further evidence that I should change the rule to allow for some chance of monsters populating a civilized region. That said, I don’t know that a crypt in a graveyard in the middle of a civilized Lawful town would get many undead. It would probably get robbers and rats. The necromancer might need to animate or make his own.
What happens if I build a 15,000gp tower–as I said my wizards short on gold, in a borderland? 15,000gp is only enough to build a domain stronghold in a civilized area.
ALEX: If you build a 15,000gp tower in the borderlands, you don’t attract peasants or apprentices. They think you lack resources and are unimpressed by your poverty and meager fortress.
What if this 7th level sorcerer is a vassal to a more powerful wizard, is this 15,000gp tower sufficient to protect the land? Does this effect #3 or #2b?
ALEX: No. You still need a good enough tower. The vassal’s lord should ante up some cash so his vassal can establish an acceptable stronghold.