Layout preview responses

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GMJoe
Joined: 2013-01-04 12:56
Layout preview responses

Is it too late to point out errors in the latyout preview?

"At 1st level (Innocent), a chosen begins with three gifts. With each level of experienced gained thereafter, the number of gifts bestowed upon by the chosen increases, as shown on the Chosen Level Progression table."

That table does not list the number of gifts bestowed upon the chosen.

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Not too late at all! Please alert me of any / all errors.

bestial warlust
Joined: 2017-04-04 08:15

I put it in a different thread but I'll repost. The proficiency table mentions bonus proficiencies. But the table doesn't reflect when you get them.

In the monster section the Cave Kraken pg162 breaks up the tables for the cacodemon

bestial warlust
Joined: 2017-04-04 08:15

Page 68 your example grey boxed text is shifted down too far.

bestial warlust
Joined: 2017-04-04 08:15

page 72 the healing proficiencies box under title the first line is  "/Day" I'm assuming that was supposed to go by patients/day so it's down one line too far.

bestial warlust
Joined: 2017-04-04 08:15

One question on the Cacodemon I noticed they have save as fighter level 16-20 how is this done as the save tables stop at 14?

koewn
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Joined: 2012-07-17 20:11

The non-HFH rituals listed aren't shaded?

Best guesses of the non-obvious ones?:

Cancellation - white
Commune - white, or shaded by contacted god's alignment? (Prophetic Dream is white though...)
Permanancy - white
Regeneration? - black by type (death)
Resurrection? - black by type (death)
Miracle - white, or by usage? (same with a theoretical 10th level Wish?)

 

Aryxymaraki
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Joined: 2014-01-04 02:20

The non-HFH rituals listed aren't shaded?

Best guesses of the non-obvious ones?:

Cancellation - white
Commune - white, or shaded by contacted god's alignment? (Prophetic Dream is white though...)
Permanancy - white
Regeneration? - black by type (death)
Resurrection? - black by type (death)
Miracle - white, or by usage? (same with a theoretical 10th level Wish?)

 


-koewn

Regeneration and Resurrection are healing-type effects (as in I mean, they are listed under Healing, not just that they heal people), so that would be White by default.

On the topic of death: Death Targeting Notes, page 210:

Says that the PC lists x0.25, the PC actually lists x0.35
Says correct is "0.x75" instead of "x0.75"

koewn
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Joined: 2012-07-17 20:11


Regeneration? - black by type (death)
Resurrection? - black by type (death)
Regeneration and Resurrection are healing-type effects (as in I mean, they are listed under Healing, not just that they heal people), so that would be White by default. On the topic of death: Death Targeting Notes, page 210: Says that the PC lists x0.25, the PC actually lists x0.35 Says correct is "0.x75" instead of "x0.75"

-Aryxymaraki

You are correct; I was thrown off, however, by the fact they're both superscripted "dth" for Death in the table on page 124, and I don't think either escape the Death/Black category by any of the definitions on the indentification lists. Neither are such in ACKS/ACKSPC, so, dunno if it's a willful change or what.

 

bestial warlust
Joined: 2017-04-04 08:15

Black spell list the Deathless minion is itallics and not bolded and on page 134 it's listed as Arcane 2, instead of Eldritch 2 (Black).

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Thanks, everyone, for this great feedback. It's all been submitted to the layout artist.

Clusterking
Clusterking's picture
Joined: 2018-01-14 21:06

 

Comments:

Beastmaster has 890000xp for level 13, should be 790000, then 910000 for level 14 p.17

Thanks. Good catch!

Chosen gift Magical Proficiency specifies Collegiate Proficiency, should be Collegiate Wizardry p.25

Thanks. Good catch!

Ecclesiastic has 160000xp for level 9, should be 180000, affects all higher levels p.28

Another good catch!

Ecclesiastic incorrectly gets +1 to Pet/Par saves like elves do with Connection to Nature p.30

Gremlins. Gremlins are at work here. We'll fix.

Ecclesiastic save table doesn't have Spells save column p.30

A formatting error by the layout designer "chopped off" the right-hand column of almost every table in the book. We'll fix!

Elven Spellsingers can't have six weapons with only Fighting 0, and can't select swords, short swords, composite bows, long bows without 2x Martial Training p.31

Elven Spellsinger buys 3 custom powers, but only specifies 2 - Martial Training? p.32

Elven Spellsinger's third class power was used to purchase additional weapon proficiencies. None of the options presented by martial training fit what I wanted for the class - for instance "Bows" included Arbalests and Crossbows. Hence I made up a new option "elven weapons". 

Freebooter has Cleric save table, should be Thief p.36

Damn Freebooters snuck that past me. We'll fix.

Halfling Bounder specifies a new power called Bounding March that needs to be on the Halfling Skills list p.37

I had thought of it as simply a re-skinned Running, which is on the Halfling Skills list already. But unlike Running, it's not limited to Chainmail or lighter. I could either add that option in; or I could add Combat Reflexes ("nervous watchfulness") to the Halfling Skills and leave Bounding Movement as a custom power to the class. Community thoughts?

Halfling Burglar has 35000xp for level 7, should be 40000, affects all higher levels p.39

Since it was right at the edge, I deliberately smoothed it to 35,000 instead of 40,000 to maintain their slight edge in XP progression over the thief. But that's not really necessary; I'll change to avoid the grognards grumbling that I don't follow my own rules. 

Halfling Burglar takes 45000xp from level 8 to 9, should be 75000, also affects level 10 p.39

Thanks. Great catch.

Halfling Burglar Skills table goes to level 14, should stop at 10 p.39

This was an inexcusable error on my part. Imagine thinking I'd ever allow Halflings to reach level 14. We'll fix.

Loremaster cannot select Read Languages with Thief value 0 p.40

Nobiran Wizard (Lore) cannot select Read Languages with Thief value 0 p.48

This is deliberate. In Heroic Fantasy Handbook the new thief-like classes (Freebooter, Burglar) shift away from Read Languages as a thief skill and it made sense to make it available as a class power, in the way that I made e.g. Eavesdropping and Climbing available.

Nobiran Wizard has 450000xp at level 10, should be 550000, affects all higher levels p.49

Nobirans think they can get away with anything just because they have good stats. I'll fix. 

Nobiran Wizard (Nature) has a unique variant of Martial Training proficiency p.49

Nah. It's just Martial Training proficiency option 4, "swords/daggers". He already knows how to use daggers, so I didn't repeat it.

Thrassian Deathchanter should have 1 level 4 spell from level 13 p. 57

This was another formatting error where the right-hand column get deleted. We'll fix all these.

Zaharan Darklord has 30 class proficiencies, but should have 31 p.66

You are right. I erroneously noted 12th as the class's max level because of the Dread Shadow power, but actually that's an After the Flesh level. We'll add Alchemy to the class list. 

Zaharan Darklord says costs 4000xp for after the flesh, but should cost 4500

Great catch - 6-7 build points makes it 4,500 XP. We'll fix.

Zaharan Sorcerer (Necromancy) Secrets of the Dark Arts power text names the Occultist p.67

Who can understand the mysteries of the occult. We'll fix.

Zaharan Sorcerer has 340000xp at level 9, should be 370000, affects all higher levels p.67

Thank you, we'll fix.

Zaharan Sorcerer (Summoning) level 5 is E3 Conjure Lesser Elemental spell, which doesn't exist! (I made one up!) p.68

That spell was removed to focus on cacodemon conjuration. Correct text:

"5th level: The summoner has made pacts with the demonic powers. The character can cast conjure hellion (as the spell) once per day. The casting time is 10 seconds (1 round)."

Ecclesiastic is missing from the Liturgical row on the Ceremonial tradition table p.107

Unruly atheists must have deleted him. We'll fix.

Hypnotic Pattern is level 3 (Grey), should be level 2 like the arcane version p.122

Hmmm. My master spreadsheet has Hypnotic Pattern costing 28.8. It was 2nd level in the game but was a "boosted" spell like Sleep and Fireball. 
All of the "boosted" spells were re-tooled or moved to their appropriate level in HFH. What formula are you using? Did I make an error in my initial calculations? It definitely ought be level 3 for HFH purposes...

Invisibility spell is Eldritch 4 (Grey), should be Eldritch 3, since design cost is 30.375 p.122

I calculate cost as 32.9. In any case, the "Source Modifier Factor: Eldritch inaudibility or invisibility x1.5" was set specifically to make sure Invisibility was 4th level for HF, since it's so powerful relatively speaking. 

Knock on White spell list is bold, without a Heroic update p.123

Wizard Lock on White spell list is bold, without a Heroic update p.123

In an earlier draft there were modified versions of these spells that tied into thief skills, but these rules didn't make the final cut. We'll fix.

Ritual table doesn't state shade for spell entries p.124 (already mentioned in thread)

No, it doesn't. I don't really think it needs to. Breaking up the ritual spell list will take up space to little playable gain.

Bane-rune header states it's a grey spell, but it appears on the White list p.125

Thanks, good catch.

Endless Slumber is level 3 in header, but on level 4 Black spell list, and level 4 in design. p.135

Thanks, another good catch.

Warmistress design misses listing the level 11 power traded for p.206

Warmistress has another iteration of death-dealing dance at level 11. You're right that this is missing in the class description.

Capsizing Wave design uses an undocumented Effect knocked overboard (20) p.208

Dark Whisper design has attack throw required as 0.75 should be 0.35 p.210

Dark Whisper saving throw avoids effect as 1, should be 0.5, cost becomes 5.95, so becomes level 1 p.210

Slicing Blow design has attack throw required to hit target (x0.75), should be x0.35, cost becomes 4.37 p.210

Soul Eating design has x0.75 for Death attack throw required, should be x0.35, cost becomes 39.3, so becomes level 4 p.210

There is errata introduced in Heroic Fantasy Handbook. Attack throw is supposed to cost x0.75. x0.35 was erroneous in PC.

Noiselessness design has duration concentration plus 3 rounds (x1), should be x1.3 yet total cost is correct p.213

I tried to tell the layout artist about this error, but he wouldn't hear me. Ba-dump bump. Ok, ok, we'll fix.

Avian Messenger design specifies two undocumented Transmogrification effects p.214

"Current form gains ability to speak" needs to be italicized. Since these were in the Summoning section they got left off the Transmogrification effects. 

Bane-rune design omits Range factor of x0.6, cost becomes 6.3 p.216

Thanks, we'll fix.

Body Swap design has Range Touch cost x0.5, should cost x0.6, total spell cost 70.9 p.216

Good catch. I'll fix, but leave it at 6th level as a "boosted" spell since it's flavorful (and hard to use).

Ice Floe design has Affected as wood costing x0.5, should be x0.4, cost becomes 6 p.218

Ice Sheet design has Affected as wood costing x0.5, should be x0.4, cost becomes 31.575 p.218

Good catches. However, I calculate Ice Sheet as 41.57, not 31.57, leaving it still 5th level. 

Weave Wood design at cost 30.3 is level 4, should be level 3. p.218

Meh. I wanted all the "Weave" spells to have 60' range. Weave Wood needs to be 4th level to fit into the correct "flow" of when various elemental spells are unlocked at each level. I figured 30.3 was right at the margin. I'll change it to 120' to satisfy you rules-lawyers!

Weave Stone design has 750 square feet worth x0.75, should be x1, cost becomes 47.157 p.218

Spell needs to stay the same level so we'll adjust to 500 square feet worth x0.75. Thanks!

That's a lot to dump at once, so I've only listed each item as one line. If any of them need more elaboration, I can provide that.

I haven't checked all the spell designs yet - I've still to go through Blast, Protection, Summoning and Transmogtification.

I'll look forward to any further issues you discover.

I've got a similarly-sized list of erratta for the Player's Companion. That's been out a while, but I haven't seen a published erratta list for that, so I could dump that too, but in a different thread. Many of these Heroic Fantasy erratta depend on rules in the Player's Companion and Axioms 1, so if any of those are corrected, some of the above may no longer apply.

This has been invaluable. Thank you very much for taking so much time and energy to check this material. Your attention to detail has been incredibly impressive. 

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Thanks, that's really good feedback. I will have to go through all of that line by line.

jedavis
Patreon SupporterPlayer's Companion BackerDomains At War BackerSinister Stone of Sakkara Backer
Joined: 2012-03-08 01:21

Bear-totem berserkers gain Berserkergang as their totam proficiency... but they already have it via lesser berserkergang, unless I'm missing something. Likewise, berserkergang is on their proficiency list and in the template.

Chosen, Courage description, would use "shrink" instad of "shirk", since shirk is transitive.

Chosen, Eldritch Talent, "by the spells' level" should be "spell's".

Lion-Hearted is a neat ability, and Military Genius is nuts.

"sworn foe must have at least equal HD or levels than the chosen" - "than then chosen" should be "to the chosen's", and even that's an awkward construction.

"an ecclesiastics can rally the faithful" - should be singular, or drop the "an". In that same paragraph, "To benefit from this spell...", but it is not a spell.

"Path of Ruffian" and related are... kind of painful to read. Path of the Ruffian, maybe? Also true of College of Armiger vs College of the Armiger, College of Armigers, or any number of reasonable alternatives.

Placate is hilarious.

Bounding March / encumbrance clarification - I don't have the Core book at hand at the moment, but it seems like this raises their overland movement rate without boosting their encounter movement rate (if yes, why is the encounter movement rate listed?). Presumably encumbrance also reduces this boosted overland movement rate at 24 / 18 / 12 / 6 miles per day?

CharlesDM
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Joined: 2012-03-01 22:31

Bear-totem berserkers gain Berserkergang as their totam proficiency... but they already have it via lesser berserkergang, unless I'm missing something. Likewise, berserkergang is on their proficiency list and in the template.

-jedavis

I can answer this. Near the beginning of the greater berserkergang class power description is the following:

"A berserker who selects ranks of the Berserkergang proficiency increases the number of times per day he can enter greater berserkergang by one per rank."

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

ARRRGH I accidentally did my post IN ClusterKings post. Sorry.  ANYWAY - see below.

Joined: 2018-01-14 21:06
 

 

Comments:

Beastmaster has 890000xp for level 13, should be 790000, then 910000 for level 14 p.17

Thanks. Good catch!

Chosen gift Magical Proficiency specifies Collegiate Proficiency, should be Collegiate Wizardry p.25

Thanks. Good catch!

Ecclesiastic has 160000xp for level 9, should be 180000, affects all higher levels p.28

Another good catch!

Ecclesiastic incorrectly gets +1 to Pet/Par saves like elves do with Connection to Nature p.30

Gremlins. Gremlins are at work here. We'll fix.

Ecclesiastic save table doesn't have Spells save column p.30

A formatting error by the layout designer "chopped off" the right-hand column of almost every table in the book. We'll fix!

Elven Spellsingers can't have six weapons with only Fighting 0, and can't select swords, short swords, composite bows, long bows without 2x Martial Training p.31

Elven Spellsinger buys 3 custom powers, but only specifies 2 - Martial Training? p.32

Elven Spellsinger's third class power was used to purchase additional weapon proficiencies. None of the options presented by martial training fit what I wanted for the class - for instance "Bows" included Arbalests and Crossbows. Hence I made up a new option "elven weapons". 

Freebooter has Cleric save table, should be Thief p.36

Damn Freebooters snuck that past me. We'll fix.

Halfling Bounder specifies a new power called Bounding March that needs to be on the Halfling Skills list p.37

I had thought of it as simply a re-skinned Running, which is on the Halfling Skills list already. But unlike Running, it's not limited to Chainmail or lighter. I could either add that option in; or I could add Combat Reflexes ("nervous watchfulness") to the Halfling Skills and leave Bounding Movement as a custom power to the class. Community thoughts?

Halfling Burglar has 35000xp for level 7, should be 40000, affects all higher levels p.39

Since it was right at the edge, I deliberately smoothed it to 35,000 instead of 40,000 to maintain their slight edge in XP progression over the thief. But that's not really necessary; I'll change to avoid the grognards grumbling that I don't follow my own rules. 

Halfling Burglar takes 45000xp from level 8 to 9, should be 75000, also affects level 10 p.39

Thanks. Great catch.

Halfling Burglar Skills table goes to level 14, should stop at 10 p.39

This was an inexcusable error on my part. Imagine thinking I'd ever allow Halflings to reach level 14. We'll fix.

Loremaster cannot select Read Languages with Thief value 0 p.40

Nobiran Wizard (Lore) cannot select Read Languages with Thief value 0 p.48

This is deliberate. In Heroic Fantasy Handbook the new thief-like classes (Freebooter, Burglar) shift away from Read Languages as a thief skill and it made sense to make it available as a class power, in the way that I made e.g. Eavesdropping and Climbing available.

Nobiran Wizard has 450000xp at level 10, should be 550000, affects all higher levels p.49

Nobirans think they can get away with anything just because they have good stats. I'll fix. 

Nobiran Wizard (Nature) has a unique variant of Martial Training proficiency p.49

Nah. It's just Martial Training proficiency option 4, "swords/daggers". He already knows how to use daggers, so I didn't repeat it.

Thrassian Deathchanter should have 1 level 4 spell from level 13 p. 57

This was another formatting error where the right-hand column get deleted. We'll fix all these.

Zaharan Darklord has 30 class proficiencies, but should have 31 p.66

You are right. I erroneously noted 12th as the class's max level because of the Dread Shadow power, but actually that's an After the Flesh level. We'll add Alchemy to the class list. 

Zaharan Darklord says costs 4000xp for after the flesh, but should cost 4500

Great catch - 6-7 build points makes it 4,500 XP. We'll fix.

Zaharan Sorcerer (Necromancy) Secrets of the Dark Arts power text names the Occultist p.67

Who can understand the mysteries of the occult. We'll fix.

Zaharan Sorcerer has 340000xp at level 9, should be 370000, affects all higher levels p.67

Thank you, we'll fix.

Zaharan Sorcerer (Summoning) level 5 is E3 Conjure Lesser Elemental spell, which doesn't exist! (I made one up!) p.68

That spell was removed to focus on cacodemon conjuration. Correct text:

"5th level: The summoner has made pacts with the demonic powers. The character can cast conjure hellion (as the spell) once per day. The casting time is 10 seconds (1 round)."

Ecclesiastic is missing from the Liturgical row on the Ceremonial tradition table p.107

Unruly atheists must have deleted him. We'll fix.

Hypnotic Pattern is level 3 (Grey), should be level 2 like the arcane version p.122

Hmmm. My master spreadsheet has Hypnotic Pattern costing 28.8. It was 2nd level in the game but was a "boosted" spell like Sleep and Fireball. 
All of the "boosted" spells were re-tooled or moved to their appropriate level in HFH. What formula are you using? Did I make an error in my initial calculations? It definitely ought be level 3 for HFH purposes...

Invisibility spell is Eldritch 4 (Grey), should be Eldritch 3, since design cost is 30.375 p.122

I calculate cost as 32.9. In any case, the "Source Modifier Factor: Eldritch inaudibility or invisibility x1.5" was set specifically to make sure Invisibility was 4th level for HF, since it's so powerful relatively speaking. 

Knock on White spell list is bold, without a Heroic update p.123

Wizard Lock on White spell list is bold, without a Heroic update p.123

In an earlier draft there were modified versions of these spells that tied into thief skills, but these rules didn't make the final cut. We'll fix.

Ritual table doesn't state shade for spell entries p.124 (already mentioned in thread)

No, it doesn't. I don't really think it needs to. Breaking up the ritual spell list will take up space to little playable gain.

Bane-rune header states it's a grey spell, but it appears on the White list p.125

Thanks, good catch.

Endless Slumber is level 3 in header, but on level 4 Black spell list, and level 4 in design. p.135

Thanks, another good catch.

Warmistress design misses listing the level 11 power traded for p.206

Warmistress has another iteration of death-dealing dance at level 11. You're right that this is missing in the class description.

Capsizing Wave design uses an undocumented Effect knocked overboard (20) p.208

Dark Whisper design has attack throw required as 0.75 should be 0.35 p.210

Dark Whisper saving throw avoids effect as 1, should be 0.5, cost becomes 5.95, so becomes level 1 p.210

Slicing Blow design has attack throw required to hit target (x0.75), should be x0.35, cost becomes 4.37 p.210

Soul Eating design has x0.75 for Death attack throw required, should be x0.35, cost becomes 39.3, so becomes level 4 p.210

There is errata introduced in Heroic Fantasy Handbook. Attack throw is supposed to cost x0.75. x0.35 was erroneous in PC.

Noiselessness design has duration concentration plus 3 rounds (x1), should be x1.3 yet total cost is correct p.213

I tried to tell the layout artist about this error, but he wouldn't hear me. Ba-dump bump. Ok, ok, we'll fix.

Avian Messenger design specifies two undocumented Transmogrification effects p.214

"Current form gains ability to speak" needs to be italicized. Since these were in the Summoning section they got left off the Transmogrification effects. 

Bane-rune design omits Range factor of x0.6, cost becomes 6.3 p.216

Thanks, we'll fix.

Body Swap design has Range Touch cost x0.5, should cost x0.6, total spell cost 70.9 p.216

Good catch. I'll fix, but leave it at 6th level as a "boosted" spell since it's flavorful (and hard to use).

Ice Floe design has Affected as wood costing x0.5, should be x0.4, cost becomes 6 p.218

Ice Sheet design has Affected as wood costing x0.5, should be x0.4, cost becomes 31.575 p.218

Good catches. However, I calculate Ice Sheet as 41.57, not 31.57, leaving it still 5th level. 

Weave Wood design at cost 30.3 is level 4, should be level 3. p.218

Meh. I wanted all the "Weave" spells to have 60' range. Weave Wood needs to be 4th level to fit into the correct "flow" of when various elemental spells are unlocked at each level. I figured 30.3 was right at the margin. I'll change it to 120' to satisfy you rules-lawyers!

Weave Stone design has 750 square feet worth x0.75, should be x1, cost becomes 47.157 p.218

Spell needs to stay the same level so we'll adjust to 500 square feet worth x0.75. Thanks!

That's a lot to dump at once, so I've only listed each item as one line. If any of them need more elaboration, I can provide that.

I haven't checked all the spell designs yet - I've still to go through Blast, Protection, Summoning and Transmogtification.

I'll look forward to any further issues you discover.

I've got a similarly-sized list of erratta for the Player's Companion. That's been out a while, but I haven't seen a published erratta list for that, so I could dump that too, but in a different thread. Many of these Heroic Fantasy erratta depend on rules in the Player's Companion and Axioms 1, so if any of those are corrected, some of the above may no longer apply.

This has been invaluable. Thank you very much for taking so much time and energy to check this material. Your attention to detail has been incredibly impressive. 

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Bear-totem berserkers gain Berserkergang as their totam proficiency... but they already have it via lesser berserkergang, unless I'm missing something. Likewise, berserkergang is on their proficiency list and in the template.

It gives you more uses of greater berserkergang per day if you select it.

Chosen, Eldritch Talent, "by the spells' level" should be "spell's". 

Thank you, good catch.

"sworn foe must have at least equal HD or levels than the chosen" - "than then chosen" should be "to the chosen's", and even that's an awkward construction. "an ecclesiastics can rally the faithful" - should be singular, or drop the "an".

In that same paragraph, "To benefit from this spell...", but it is not a spell.

Good catch.

"Path of Ruffian" and related are... kind of painful to read. Path of the Ruffian, maybe? Also true of College of Armiger vs College of the Armiger, College of Armigers, or any number of reasonable alternatives.

These are all being revised to "Path of the Ruffian" and so on.

 

Placate is hilarious.

Thank you! I thought so too.

 

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

OK, I'm definitely losing track of my own iterative design. Weave spells already had their ranges adjusted to 120' in the text. But it didn't get reflected in the spell descriptions. I think I have it sorted. Please review:

 

Weave Metal (6): Wall, substance is impermeable to creatures (25), substance is impermeable to vision and light (10), affected as iron by physical and magical effects (x0.8),wall may be readily shaped by reducing area (x1), wall may be bonded to surrounding area (x1.2), wall must be solidly supported (x0.75), elemental – earth (x1), target 1,000 square feet (x1.25), 1” thick (x0.75), may not be evoked where objects/creatures are (x1), spell manipulates existing volume with noted characteristics (x0.67), range 120’ (x1), duration indefinite (x2.66), no saving throw (x1), eldritch (x1.5), total cost 63.1

Weave Smoke (1): Wall, impermeable to vision and light (10), affected by physical and magical effects as smoke (x0.9), wall may readily shaped by reducing area (x1), elemental – air (x1), target 1,000 square feet (x1.25), 1’ thick (x1), may not be evoked where objects/creatures are (x1), spell manipulates existing volume with noted characteristics (x0.67), range 120’ (x1), duration 1 turns (x0.75), no saving throw (x1), eldritch (x1.5), total cost 8.5

Weave Stone (5): Wall, substance is impermeable to creatures (25), substance is impermeable to vision and light (10), affected as stone by physical and magical effects (x0.7), wall may be readily shaped by reducing area (x1), wall may be bonded to surrounding area (x1.2), wall must be solidly supported (x0.75),  elemental – earth (x1), target 500 square feet (x0.75), 1’ thick (x1), may not be evoked where objects/creatures are (x1), spell manipulates existing volume with noted characteristics (x0.67), range 120’ (x1), duration indefinite (x2.66), no saving throw (x1), eldritch (x1.5), total cost 44.2

Weave Water (4): Wall, substance deals 1d6 damage to creatures that pass through (10), impermeable to creatures with less than 4 HD (20), impermeable to vision (5), not affected by physical and magical effects (x1), wall may be readily shaped by reducing area (x1), wall may be bonded to surrounding area (x1.2), wall must be solidly supported (x0.75), is elemental – water (x1), target 1,200 square feet (x1.5), 1” thick (x0.75), may not be evoked where objects/creatures are (x1), spell manipulates existing volume with noted characteristics (x0.67), range 120’ (x1), duration 2 turns (x1), no saving throw (x1), eldritch (x1.5), total cost 35.6

Weave Wood (4): Wall, substance is impermeable to creatures (25), substance is impermeable to vision and light (10), affected as wood by physical and magical effects (x0.4), wall may be readily shaped by reducing area (x1), wall may be bonded to surrounding area (x1.2), wall must be solidly supported (x0.75),  is elemental – earth (x1), target 1,200 square feet (x1.5), 1” thick (x0.75), may not be evoked where objects/creatures are (x1), spell manipulates existing volume with noted characteristics (x0.67), range 120’ (x1), duration indefinite (x2.66), no saving throw (x1), eldritch (x1.5), total cost 37.9

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Bounding March / encumbrance clarification - I don't have the Core book at hand at the moment, but it seems like this raises their overland movement rate without boosting their encounter movement rate (if yes, why is the encounter movement rate listed?). Presumably encumbrance also reduces this boosted overland movement rate at 24 / 18 / 12 / 6 miles per day?

The intent of this power was just to make it clear that they got 120' movement and thus 24 miles per day wilderness movement. 

 

Clusterking
Clusterking's picture
Joined: 2018-01-14 21:06

Elaborating, as promised.

me >Nobiran Wizard (Nature) has a unique variant of Martial Training proficiency p.49

alex >Nah. It's just Martial Training proficiency option 4, "swords/daggers". He already knows how to use daggers, so I didn't repeat it.

No, that's the one from Nobiran Wizard (Fellowship). Nobiran Wizard (Nature) adds short bows, short swords, and spears, which is a new one!

 

me >Hypnotic Pattern is level 3 (Grey), should be level 2 like the arcane version p.122

alex >Hmmm. My master spreadsheet has Hypnotic Pattern costing 28.8. It was 2nd level in the game but was a "boosted" spell like Sleep and Fireball.

alex >All of the "boosted" spells were re-tooled or moved to their appropriate level in HFH. What formula are you using? Did I make an error in my initial calculations? It definitely ought be level 3 for HFH purposes...

Sorry, that one slipped through, and shouldn't have been on my list! You haven't published a design for Hypnotic Pattern, so I can't do checking based on it.

 

me >Invisibility spell is Eldritch 4 (Grey), should be Eldritch 3, since design cost is 30.375 p.122

alex >I calculate cost as 32.9. In any case, the "Source Modifier Factor: Eldritch inaudibility or invisibility x1.5" was set specifically to make sure Invisibility was 4th level for HF, since it's so powerful relatively speaking.

Invisibility HAS got a published design in the Player's Companion p.119, summing to 20 for arcane (20.25 exactly), which correctly makes level 2.

Applying the eldritch modifier of x1.5 gives 30 (30.375 exactly).

Is your value of 32.9 coming out of that published design from PC, or an eldritch-specific one to boost the level as you want?

 

alex >There is errata introduced in Heroic Fantasy Handbook. Attack throw is supposed to cost x0.75. x0.35 was erroneous in PC.

I NOW see the note that was ALWAYS there pointing that out on p.210! How did I miss that! (Though it incorrectly mentions x0.25 as the PC value)

 

me >Ice Sheet design has Affected as wood costing x0.5, should be x0.4, cost becomes 31.575 p.218

alex >Good catches. However, I calculate Ice Sheet as 41.57, not 31.57, leaving it still 5th level.

A typo at my end - that should have been 41.57.

 

I've reviewed those 120' Weave spells, and they all look correct.

CharlesDM
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Regarding the ongoing discussion of varieties of Martial Training, when constructing classes, I don’t view adding weapon choices as exclusively choosing Martial Training proficiency, but as a power choice of equivalent effect, providing a narrow weapon selection:

A narrow weapon selection means the class can wield weapons from any 2 of the following 7 narrow categories: (i) axes; (ii) bows/crossbows; (iii) flails/hammers/maces; (iv) swords/daggers; (v) spears/pole arms; (vi) bolas/darts/nets/slings/saps/staffs; (vii) any combination of 3 weapons. (Player’s Companion)

In my games, I even go a step further, and redefine actual Martial Training proficiency as the above choice. I don’t think this is game-breaking.

koewn
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That's a good way to do it - worth being the actual rule, at any rate. 

Charles, have you ever seen any conflict between this and what fighting styles a class has available? For example, a class that drops two-handed weapons wouldn't theoretically get a lot of use out of "(v) spears/polearms". In my view it's minor enough (given one has spent a valuable power slot on it) that it shouldn't matter (i.e. let them use polearms), but may need to be noted in an official rule writeup.

 

CharlesDM
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Charles, have you ever seen any conflict between this and what fighting styles a class has available? For example, a class that drops two-handed weapons wouldn't theoretically get a lot of use out of "(v) spears/polearms". In my view it's minor enough (given one has spent a valuable power slot on it) that it shouldn't matter (i.e. let them use polearms), but may need to be noted in an official rule writeup.

-koewn

I don’t remember doing that with a class, and a player hasn’t asked me to do that. (Even allowing the flexibility above, expanded weapon choices only fit certain characters and are not a popular choice.) I’d want to think through every possibility before making it a rule, but as Judge, I think I’d allow a player to do that.

Polearms can be great, but the initiative penalty hurts secondary and tertiary combatants more, I think.

I’m reminded of the wizard (shaman) at the end of the Conan the Barbarian movie :-)

jedavis
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Dark lord dominate beastmen, "usually rely on trust henchmen" should be trusted.

Several places in the magic chapter reference The Tomb of Atuan, but should be The Tombs of Atuan.

jedavis
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Joined: 2012-03-08 01:21

Page 106, "or by spellcasters who have taken the Ceremonial Magic proficiency" - the Ceremonial Magic proficiency description notes a certain set of effects when taken by non-spellcasters, so maybe this should read "characters" instead of "spellcasters".

Presumably performing a complex ceremony methodically does not entail an entire week without sleeping for more than ten minutes at a time?

Performing complex ceremonies hastily - It's in the text, but would be nice if there were a row for it on the table on p110.

p112, "later in the day, Balbus and his henchmen Algernon are both badly wounded." Should be henchman

Kind of odd that the generic/misc special components are covered twice for trinket creation (once on p112 before the roll to create is introduced, once in their own paragraph on 113). Also odd the metamphora are reproduced between gear and trinket creation.

Interruption of trinket use, page 113 - "Should an opponent successfully deal damage... the ceremony fails and the trinket is destroyed." Is this true of rechargable as well as disposable trinkets, that they are destroyed outright?

It also seems odd thet disposable trinkets are destroyed on stigma reset - I'd expect the item to continue to exist, but just to be disenchanted (granted, the costs are pretty negligible for disposables).

p114, "If a ceremonialist finds and identifies rechargeable trinket" - "a rechargeable trinket"

p114, "Ceremonial Talisman" heading should probably be "Ceremonial Talismans" to match plurality with the Ceremonial Trinkets heading on p112

If a ceremonialist uses a talisman in lieu of traditional implements and rolls a botch, is the talisman damaged in lieu of degradation of implements? Or does the degradation of implements just not happen?

"A ceremonialist creating a black magic talisman gains 1 point of corruption per level of the ceremony or ceremonies affiliated with the talisman." Seems like this might be an artifact of an older draft, where talismans were associated with particular ceremonies rather than tags like "death and necromancy"?

Liturgical ceremony mishaps, rows 3 and 7, and shamanic mishaps row 7, refer to "the experiment" rather than "the ceremony".

jedavis
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The spell signature table referenced in the mishap tables does not appear to be present in this document.

Boil Blood, "scalding puss" should probably be pus.

Call Wild Bear - I'm surprised that summoning a black bear is the same level effect as summoning a cave bear, given that cave bears are much stronger.

"Melee attack throws against agonized creatures automatically hit if the If the attacker" - "if the" duplicated.

Destroy Dead is marked as Black in its description on p134 (and on the table on 121), but this seems like the canonical example of "Death spells which exclusively harm the undead." Is it black because it can be used to destroy unanimated corpses?

"the fangs of the earth[/]b can only" has some extra bits in there.

"The affected creature must have at least three limbs (hands and feet) free to swim, but needs no climbing gear or handholds." Well I should hope so...

p158, "Plans are immune" should be Plants.

Cacodemon - wyverine body form mentioned on page 161, but not present in attack routine and damage by body type table (but maybe that's what the black box in the bottom left of p161 is supposed to be? This could just be my linux pdf viewer).

The meaning of the numbers in parentheses on the cacodemon special abilities table is alluded to within some of the table entries themselves, but never explicitly stated. The 100 / Unusual entry also references "the rust cacodemon" and vampires; looks like a find-replace.

Reading Dragon, it seems like it would've been a lot clearer to make wings / flight a special ability, rather than having winged dragons lose a special ability.

"A wyvern’s attack routine consists of either a bite and a tail attack and, if winged, two talon attacks." should be "A wyvern’s attack routine consists of either a bite and a tail attack *or*, if winged, two talon attacks.", per the table on p166. Would also have been nice for usability if Monitor were on that table; I assume it's the same as in Core, and get that it's especially complicated for monitors, but it's an extra book to dig out / lookup to do.

"may stop to listen to the pleas or praise of a soon to be lunch." would be clearer to parse as "soon-to-be lunch".

"but if hungry stymph will be lucky to replace one per month." should be "but a hungry...".

The footer on the whole monsters chapter says "Eldritch Spell Lists".

I *love* the "more common coin" / bulkier treasures, plays very nicely to megadungeon logistics (which I understand is not the focus of this supplement, but is something I would totally steal for non-heroic games) without having to deal with the hassle of selling trade goods.

4d4 rechargeable first-level trinkets is a lot of trinkets to generate and keep track of.

"the bow will call a large roc to server the wielder" should be serve.

p197, "the judge is placing a rare trinket +5", should be talisman (along with other references to trinket in that boxed text)

p203, short-statured: where do spears fall?

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Dark lord dominate beastmen, "usually rely on trust henchmen" should be trusted.

-jedavis

Fixed!

Several places in the magic chapter reference The Tomb of Atuan, but should be The Tombs of Atuan.

-

Fixed, thank you.

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Page 106, "or by spellcasters who have taken the Ceremonial Magic proficiency" - the Ceremonial Magic proficiency description notes a certain set of effects when taken by non-spellcasters, so maybe this should read "characters" instead of "spellcasters". Presumably performing a complex ceremony methodically does not entail an entire week without sleeping for more than ten minutes at a time? Performing complex ceremonies hastily - It's in the text, but would be nice if there were a row for it on the table on p110. 

-jedavis

This is good feedback, but too late to make substantive changes at this time. 

p112, "later in the day, Balbus and his henchmen Algernon are both badly wounded." Should be henchman

-

Great catch, fixed!

Kind of odd that the generic/misc special components are covered twice for trinket creation (once on p112 before the roll to create is introduced, once in their own paragraph on 113).  

Also odd the metamphora are reproduced between gear and trinket creation.


-

I don't want there to be any question as to whether 'you really need to store the components in metamphora" and "you really need the right components or you take a penalty." People missed these rules in playtest.

Interruption of trinket use, page 113 - "Should an opponent successfully deal damage... the ceremony fails and the trinket is destroyed." Is this true of rechargable as well as disposable trinkets, that they are destroyed outright?

-

Yes, it's correct. The magic "blows up". This is a major way that rechargeable trinkets disappear in play. Think of any wizard in fantasy whose skull of power/wand/staff breaks or explodes when the hero messes up his spell.

It also seems odd thet disposable trinkets are destroyed on stigma reset - I'd expect the item to continue to exist, but just to be disenchanted (granted, the costs are pretty negligible for disposables). 

-

I hear you, and I think can read it as "exists in a permanent and unenchanted state" if you'd like, but destroyed much simpler. Basically I didn't want there to be any hint that you could "recharge" disposable trinkets after stigma. They're gone. The cleansing of stigma permanently severs your connection to that object and renders  it useless for enchantment in the future.

 p114, "If a ceremonialist finds and identifies rechargeable trinket" - "a rechargeable trinket"

-

Thank you!

p114, "Ceremonial Talisman" heading should probably be "Ceremonial Talismans" to match plurality with the Ceremonial Trinkets heading on p112

-

Roger that

If a ceremonialist uses a talisman in lieu of traditional implements and rolls a botch, is the talisman damaged in lieu of degradation of implements? Or does the degradation of implements just not happen? 

-

Nothing happens except the possible mishap.

"A ceremonialist creating a black magic talisman gains 1 point of corruption per level of the ceremony or ceremonies affiliated with the talisman." Seems like this might be an artifact of an older draft, where talismans were associated with particular ceremonies rather than tags like "death and necromancy"?

-

Hazzah, thank you for spotting that.

Liturgical ceremony mishaps, rows 3 and 7, and shamanic mishaps row 7, refer to "the experiment" rather than "the ceremony".

-

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

The spell signature table referenced in the mishap tables does not appear to be present in this document.

-jedavis

It's in Player's Companion. No room to say so, though.

Boil Blood, "scalding puss" should probably be pus.

-

Yes, yes, it should.

Call Wild Bear - I'm surprised that summoning a black bear is the same level effect as summoning a cave bear, given that cave bears are much stronger.

-

It's just how the spell build worked out.

Call of the Wild Bear (3): Summoning, summon a creature (65), creature may have up to 8 HD (x0.7), creature may have up to 1 special ability (x1), restricted to certain monsters – bears (x0.7), range special – creature(s) arrives by means of own locomotion from nearest lair (x0.66), duration 1 day (x1.25), no saving throw (x1), eldritch (x1), total cost 26.3 

"Melee attack throws against agonized creatures automatically hit if the If the attacker" - "if the" duplicated.

-

Good catch, thank you!

Destroy Dead is marked as Black in its description on p134 (and on the table on 121), but this seems like the canonical example of "Death spells which exclusively harm the undead." Is it black because it can be used to destroy unanimated corpses?

-

Yes. And also it just didn't "feel" like a grey or white spell. It's more of an ash-and-doom than glorious-radiance type feel. 

"The affected creature must have at least three limbs (hands and feet) free to swim, but needs no climbing gear or handholds." Well I should hope so... 

-

Ergh, indeed.

p158, "Plans are immune" should be Plants.

-

My plans are immune because I have Military Strategy +4. 

The 100 / Unusual entry also references "the rust cacodemon" and vampires; looks like a find-replace.

-

The dread rust cacodemon is widely feared.

Reading Dragon, it seems like it would've been a lot clearer to make wings / flight a special ability, rather than having winged dragons lose a special ability.

-

This. Is. ACKS!

"A wyvern’s attack routine consists of either a bite and a tail attack and, if winged, two talon attacks." should be "A wyvern’s attack routine consists of either a bite and a tail attack *or*, if winged, two talon attacks.", per the table on p166.

-

Actually it's just like wyvern, the base monster. They can choose a bite/tail or two talons but the attack routine includes both.

Would also have been nice for usability if Monitor were on that table; I assume it's the same as in Core, and get that it's especially complicated for monitors, but it's an extra book to dig out / lookup to do. 

-

Every table in the sample is missing its right-hand column. Monitor will be there, it just got deleted accidentally by the layout artist. This is true of a bunch of your other comments too...!

"may stop to listen to the pleas or praise of a soon to be lunch." would be clearer to parse as "soon-to-be lunch".

"but if hungry stymph will be lucky to replace one per month." should be "but a hungry...". 


-

Thanks!

The footer on the whole monsters chapter says "Eldritch Spell Lists". 

-

Yup, we're fixing. 

I *love* the "more common coin" / bulkier treasures, plays very nicely to megadungeon logistics (which I understand is not the focus of this supplement, but is something I would totally steal for non-heroic games) without having to deal with the hassle of selling trade goods.

-

I think the treasure system in HFH is a substantial improvement over the core system and am using it for all my games. 

4d4 rechargeable first-level trinkets is a lot of trinkets to generate and keep track of.

-

It is, yeah. 

"the bow will call a large roc to server the wielder" should be serve. p197,

-

Oops

"the judge is placing a rare trinket +5", should be talisman (along with other references to trinket in that boxed text) p203, short-statured: where do spears fall?

-

Thanks!

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

The Heroic Fantasy Handbook is officially locked for layout and print. Thank you everyone for your exhaustive and detailed feedback.

 

Malek Deneith
Joined: 2018-01-11 11:15

This technically isn't a response for *layout preview* - seeing as I missed the Kickstarter and therefore can't view those fancy-shmancy exclusive previews - so this might be pointing out things that got caught long, long ago; but I figure it's better to make an unnecessary warning than to stay silent on something that might've slid by.

Namely I've been looking over the samples in the publicly visible KS updates, and I noticed there seems to be an error in XP chart for Warmistress posted there: the jump from 13th to 14th level requires additional 220k experience points, as opposed to 120k for other levels above 8th.

 

Edit: Ah hell only now I noticed the post saying that layout was officially locked a bit earlier. Ah well, hopefully this got caught in editing.

jedavis
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> This is good feedback, but too late to make substantive changes at this time.

Mm, I suspected that might be the case. So it goes.

> The Heroic Fantasy Handbook is officially locked for layout and print. Thank you everyone for your exhaustive and detailed feedback.

So let it be written, so let it be done!

FooBot
Joined: 2016-09-13 12:49

This is very exciting! I missed the bus on backing the project, do we have any idea how long it normally takes from when the layout gets finalized to when it is available for those of us who missed out?

Scott
Lairs And Encounters Backer
Joined: 2016-08-24 05:29

So, I received the finished pdf today. At a quick look, its very impressive, but I did notice there are a few "see page XX"s in there. 

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Scott, I thought I had gotten them all. Could you let me know which ones you've spotted? We'll have a chance to fix between now and print proof.

moorcrys
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For the Page xx issue, what I found: Page 67(2x), 68, 97(3x), 128, 135, 138, and 152.

Scott
Lairs And Encounters Backer
Joined: 2016-08-24 05:29

I concur with moorcrys.

Jard
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my PDF reader found 10 instances of "XX" so this seems correct.

Jard
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shame on me for not digging into the book sooner, but:

pg 27: the text for the Inheritor template says "beastmaster" instead of "chosen"

EHamilton
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Joined: 2012-04-27 16:03

The monster listing for "Snake, Giant Constricting Viper" currently gives anomalously low values for both saving throw and experience (perhaps copied from the giant python), and has what appears to be a placeholder ("Make Incidental") for treasure.

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Thank you everyone! I just submitted the list of errata to fix the book.