Automatons: Ammo and Passengers

General ACKS Forums Ask the Autarchs
1

Player is trying out automaton rules with his machinist.

Ammo:

So, as written, I'm assuming an automaton never runs out of ammo for ranged attacks? If this is true, would requiring ammo be a -1 special ability? That seems too low a cost, though, for a full -1... so maybe the cost of the ammo has to be some factor of the automaton (maybe based on its damage and area of effect)? And if so what would that cost be?

I can see this being a pretty big issue when deciding whether to create an automatic bullet slinger that fires 3 attacks at 1d4 each or a flame thrower that does a single 1d12 blast to everyone in range and AoE.

Passengers:

Just to make sure, a passenger-operator still requires the automaton to have enough HD to actually carry them, correct (in this case, I'm assuming a minimum of 2HD for a 20 stone carrying capacity would be the baseline for most pilots)? So no 1/2 HD flight suits, because they can only carry 1.25 stone? I ask because the wording in the automaton rules seems to suggest this to be true, but in one of Alex's examples here on the forums (this thread: http://autarch.co/forums/ask-autarchs/why-do-dwarven-mechanists-get-ability-create-dungeons ) it looks like that might not be the case (and Alex never addressed that particular tangent of the question).

2

Hello Lord Crimson!

Ammunition

I would say that ammunition would count as a -1 penalty IF the machinist has to pay for the cost of the ammo *and* account for its weight. I would recommend looking at the ammo costs and weight for various weapons in ACKS such as arrows, ballista stones, etc to find a reasonable value for the given weapon. You might allow a tradeoff of cost versus weight by using the product of the two as the means of balance.

For instance, a medium ballista does 3d6 damage; each shot costs 2gp and weighs 3lb. 2x3=6. You might say that for an automaton weapon doing 3d6 damage, each shot costs 6gp and weighs 1lb, costs 12gp and weighs 1/2lb, costs 1gp and weighs 6lb, etc. 6x1, 12x1/2, 1x6, 2x3, all equal 6. 

Passengers

A passenger-operator still requires the automoton to have enough HD to actually carry them. Remember that you can double carrying capacity as a special ability. I may have made an error in the earlier thread if I ignored that.

 

3

I thought doubling carrying capacity = one special ability was a rule, but I can’t find it in the book. Am I being blind or is there an error somewhere?

4

[quote="Aryxymaraki"]

A passenger-operator still requires the automoton to have enough HD to actually carry them. Remember that you can double carrying capacity as a special ability. I may have made an error in the earlier thread if I ignored that.

 


-Alex

I thought doubling carrying capacity = one special ability was a rule, but I can't find it in the book. Am I being blind or is there an error somewhere? [/quote]

I believe he meant

"each doubling of passenger capacity counts as another special ability" pg. 19 PC

5

The rule I was thinking of was, "An automaton’s default weight is its Hit Dice squared x 10 stone. For instance, a ½ HD automaton will weigh 2.5 stone (25lb) while a 4 HD automaton will weigh 160 stone (1,600lb). Each doubling or halving of weight counts as a special ability. An automaton’s carrying capacity is equal to ½ its weight."

There is not a rule that allows you to double or halve carrying capacity... but perhaps there should be!

 

6

There should be, so that I can create a mechanical beetle ornithopter that doesn't require a huge number of hit dice.

7

Well, if they’re riding on it, you can double its weight, which automatically doubles its carrying capacity.

You’d need a specific carrying-capacity increase (without increasing the weight) in the case of flight wings or jetpacks or other carried-propulsion systems; for vehicles, you can just double the weight.

8

Buying down the automaton's weight doesn't lower its carrying capacity, though, right?

So, if I make a jet pack and want it to be able to lift a PC, then I can buy it at 2 HD and then buy down its weight to only 5 stone or 2.5 stone and still have it effectively able to lift the 20 stone operator/pilot, correct?

9

[quote="Lord Crimson"]

Buying down the automaton's weight doesn't lower its carrying capacity, though, right?

So, if I make a jet pack and want it to be able to lift a PC, then I can buy it at 2 HD and then buy down its weight to only 5 stone or 2.5 stone and still have it effectively able to lift the 20 stone operator/pilot, correct?

[/quote]

 

fairly certain that doesn't technically work without some new automaton construction options, since carrying capacity is directly tied to weight.

You could certainly allow a special ability to double/halve the current carrying capacity and it would probably be not much more unbalanced than the rules as is, since the resulting jetpack would be obscenely expensive.

That being said, while "Every Campaign is a Law Unto Itself", the jetpack sounds a little more like a gadget than an automaton to me.  I realize we're kind of blurring the lines here with vehicles, but for some reason a jetpack is more troubling to me than, say, an ornithopter which would be quite heavy if not being actively used.

10

Buying down an automaton's weight reduces its carrying capacity. If you wanted something that was lightweight with a hefty carrying capacity you'd have to pay double in terms of special abilities, I'd judge.

 

11

[quote="Jard"]

That being said, while "Every Campaign is a Law Unto Itself", the jetpack sounds a little more like a gadget than an automaton to me.  I realize we're kind of blurring the lines here with vehicles, but for some reason a jetpack is more troubling to me than, say, an ornithopter which would be quite heavy if not being actively used.

[/quote]

Given that Alex's own examples in the thread I linked in the OP consisted of an arcanometer, steam-ballistae, and an "ornithopter wing pack" (which is basically just a rocket pack under a different name), I think we're in the realm of "functioning as intended" when the line of gadget/automaton gets blurry. 

[quote="Alex"]

Buying down an automaton's weight reduces its carrying capacity. If you wanted something that was lightweight with a hefty carrying capacity you'd have to pay double in terms of special abilities, I'd judge.

[/quote]

Interesting. So "lightweight plus carrying capacity" would increase the number of special abilities (and therefore the requisite level of the machinist) rather than HD.

That actually makes sense, including setting-wise (clunky machinery versus elegant magic).

So, the "ornithopter pack" could just be 1/2 HD and 2.5 stone, but it would need 4 levels of "increased carrying capacity" (20 stone) in addition to base immunities (+1), requires operator (-1), flying (+1), passenger (+1), no attack (-1). So Level 5 minimum (unless the machinist has the requisite proficiencies).

And unlike the Fly spell, the fragile pack can be targeted.

And now I'm looking at the Inventing and Tinkering proficiencies... What's the point of being able to make a design that's two levels better if you can't actually build it unless you also have Tinkering?