Command Undead + Black Lore of Zahar/Secrets of the Dark Arts

If a character has both Command Undead and Black Lore of Zahar (or Secrets of the Dark Arts), do the two "Chaotic cleric of one half his class level" features stack so that they can control undead at their own level?

I don't know if it's canonical, but the Skull Ring of Yethlyreom from Dwimmermount (ACKS) is essentially a ring of "Command Undead",  and specifically states that bearers who have Black Lore can control undead as a Chaotic cleric of their full class level.

Theoretically I'd have the same question about, say, Grey Lore, either combined with Command Undead or combined with Black Lore.

I didn't actually recall Command Undead was only a custom power until I looked it up - would have sworn it was a spell as well. 

That being said, replicating it as a custom power rather than as a magic spell is cheaper - Transmografication granting a "proficiency-like ability" costs a base of 20, where Enchantment's "Commanded for duration" is 60 points, and is much more expensive to emulate Turn/Control Undead with.

 

I hate to perform thread necromancy, but it seems appropriate in this case.

Did Alex ever give an official answer to this question in another thread?

Yes, if you have both the Command Undead class power and Black Lore proficiency you can turn undead as a cleric of your level. Same goes for Secrets and Black Lore.

CAVEAT: It ispotentially abusable area if divine casting is involved, because of the divine casting trade-off rules. Be careful when building classes here.

 

Bumping again with a new Black Lore question.

Is the +2 caster level/undead creation level still capped at 14? Or could they have (for example) a 1 round/level spell last 16 rounds from a 14th level caster? (Same idea with undead; still limited to 14 HD, or could they get up to 16 HD? If it’s not capped, what happens with the magic research throw? Honestly this last question makes me think it’s capped, but I’ll ask anyway.)

Black Lore states:

He may also conduct necromantic research (see
Necromancy in Chapter 7) as if he were two class levels higher
than actual.

 

This probably effects the HD of the creature created but does it also:

  • Help with magical research throw for creating undead
  • Help with magical research of necromantic spells
  • Help with magical experimentation on necromantic spells (letting a mage experiment/enabling breakthroughs sooner)
  • Enabling a mage to grant unlife before level 11

 

Does this also work for the Transmogification proficiency in a similar manner?

 

I've been assuming it's not capped, so I'd be interested in the original intent, too.

Good question! I've got a Mage in my current campaign who's planning on taking this shortly. On a related note, I'm also interested in the original intent of whether or not these Proficiencies allow a PC to start research sooner (e.g., 9th level instead of 11th for Crossbreeding)...

EDIT: Oops! Sorry Rodriguez, I see your last bullet covers that.

No, it's not capped. Magic research throws at 15th and 16th level are 2+ and 1+ respectively (keep in mind the automatic failure for unmodified die rolls of 1-3).

Yes, the effective level bonus impacts all of the following:

  • Help with magical research throw for creating undead
  • Help with magical research of necromantic spells
  • Help with magical experimentation on necromantic spells (letting a mage experiment/enabling breakthroughs sooner)
  • Enabling a mage to grant unlife before level 11

 

[quote="Alex"] Yes, the effective level bonus impacts all of the following: snip [/quote]

Yes, but...

[quote="Rodriguez"] Does this also work for the Transmogification proficiency in a similar manner? [/quote]

Thanks!

Yes!

Since it was mentioned that Secret and Black Lore can combine, would the the level and saving throw adjustments stack resulting in +4 necromancy and -4 death save? I'm aware that no class currently allows for that by build, but magic items could be crafted with one or the other providing simultaneous access to each. 

That's correct.