Extra proficiencies, who gets them, and when?

So since book one (core?) we have had a bit of confusion on when normal men get profficines and with the 2e rules we became more confused.

Are the rules in 2e extra proficiencies humans can learn in addition to leveling or are you just speeding up the process.

From the DM

“So i’m currently under the impression that training acts as leveling for gaining proficiencies. for example, you can train 60 days or you can fight until level 2. However, I’m curious that if you are 5th level, and already have 2 proficiencies, do you need to train the year to generate the third? or do you spend 60 days because its the first time you’ve trained.”

Looking for some clarification.

Ordinary normal men have 4 proficiencies at 0 level, and then gain more as they age.  They do not level up, so they don't gain proficiencies that way.

Adventurers have the Adventuring proficiency, which is worth four proficiencies; specifically, the four that normal men have at 0 level.  They don't usually age enough to gain proficiencies that way, but they do level up to gain them.

When filling proficiency slots via training, that takes the place of the proficiencies that would normally be gained through age.  You can spend 5-10 years actually doing the job, and you'll get better at it; or you can spend 2 months of hard focused training, and you'll get better at it.

What proficiencies are gained first then? From level up or from training? Example: if you level up to 5 and gain your general and then spend the 8 months training does that mean your next general is taken?

[quote="Demons_eye"] What proficiencies are gained first then? From level up or from training? Example: if you level up to 5 and gain your general and then spend the 8 months training does that mean your next general is taken? [/quote]

No.  They are separate pools.  General proficiencies from leveling are not related to the general proficiencies from age/training.

Age and training are one pool of general proficiencies.  Leveling is the other pool.  They don't interact with each other.

If a level 0 henchman levels to level 1, do they gain the Adventuring proficiency?

[quote="golan2072"]

If a level 0 henchman levels to level 1, do they gain the Adventuring proficiency?

[/quote]

 

 

No, they need to reach level 4. Its in the first book. 

 

[quote="Aryxymaraki"]

No.  They are separate pools.  General proficiencies from leveling are not related to the general proficiencies from age/training.

Age and training are one pool of general proficiencies.  Leveling is the other pool.  They don't interact with each other.

[/quote]

See thats what I thought but there is now more confusion. They way I read your response lead me to belive that the generals from level are the same from training. Can I get a source from Alex?

[quote="Demons_eye"]

See thats what I thought but there is now more confusion. They way I read your response lead me to belive that the generals from level are the same from training. Can I get a source from Alex?

[/quote]

As the person who wrote my response, I can safely say that that was not the intent :P

I do not have a source or quite from Alex though so we'll have to wait for him to clarify if I'm not doing a competent job of it.  (Which is totally possible, it's been a very long week already.)

It's two different pools.

A normal man: By the time he's reached adulthood, he has 4 general proficiencies. He may also have some from Intelligence. He will then gain additional general proficiencies from aging. (If you are using the rules from Axioms, he can intensively train to acquire these proficiencies sooner.) 

An aspiring adventurer: By the time he's reached adulthood, he has 4 general proficiencies. He has squandered the opportunity to learn a useful trade and instead spent all 4 to get Adventuring proficiency, much to the chagrin of his parents and ex-spouse. He may also have some from Intelligence. At 5th level and thereafter, he will gain additional general proficiencies from leveling. He will ALSO gain additional general proficiencies from aging. (If you are using the rules from Axioms, he can intensively train to acquire the proficiencies from aging sooner.) 

A normal man who later becomes an adventurer: By the time he's reached adulthood, he has 4 general proficiencies. He may also have some from Intelligence. As he reaches 2nd, 3rd, and 4th level, he will lose one of his general proficiencies. At 4th level, he will gain Adventuring. At 5th level and thereafter, he will gain additional general proficiencies from leveling. He will ALSO gain additional general proficiencies from aging. (If you are using the rules from Axioms, he can intensively train to acquire the proficiencies from aging sooner.) 

So let's take hypothetical hero, HEROICUS, with 16 INT. 

1. Heroicus is brow-beaten by his mother into staying home and working as a kennel master for the local lord's hounds. He has Animal Training (dogs), Animal Husbandry, Riding, and Tracking. Because he has 16 INT, he has two other proficiencies. Because he hates his life, he is prone to spending lots of time alone in the woods, and takes Naturalism and Survival. After 5 years as a kennel master, he gains another proficiency. He takes Animal Training (dire wolves) and fantasizes about being recruited by an evil dark lord and training a pack of wargs to devour the village bailiff.

2. Heroicus is a rebellious youth and rejects the counsel of his parents to get a day job. Instead he apprentices to Oldmanicus, a retired ranger, and becomes a 1st level explorer. He has Adventuring proficiency instead of 4 general proficiencies. He learns Precise Shooting as his starting class proficiency and Tracking as his starting general proficiency. He has INT 16, so he chooses two more general proficiencies, selecting Riding and Survival. At 3rd level, he gains a class profiency and chooses Combat Reflexes. At 5th level he gains another general proficiency and chooses Endurance. 

3. Heroicus is depressed he's become a kennel master. (He hasn't been at it for 5 years yet). One day, Oldmanicus is called out of retirement, and he invites Heroicus to come along as his henchman. Heroicus agrees and soon becomes a 1st level explorer

  • At 1st level, he has: Animal Training (dogs), Animal Husbandry, Riding, and Tracking, plus Naturalism and Survival . He gains a starting class proficiency and chooses Precise Shooting. He does NOT gain Adventuring yet, nor another general proficiency.
  • At 2nd level, he must give up one general proficiency. He abandons Animal Training (dogs).
  • At 3rd level, he must give up one general proficiency. He abandons Animal Husbandry. He also gains a class proficiency at this level. He takes Combat Reflexes.
  • At 4th level, he must  give up another general proficiency. He abandons Survival. He now gains Adventuring. He now has - Combat Reflexes (class), Precise Shooting (class), Adventuring, Riding, Tracking, and Survival. 
  • At 5th level, he gains a general proficiency. He chooses Endurance. Note that Heroicus is now finally at the same spot he would be in #2 above at 5th level. 

 

I've been confused by this for a while, but why do you say Adventuring is worth four general proficiencies instead of three? A character who starts out without the adventuring proficiency only has to give up three general proficiencies to learn it, and a charatcer who starts with Adventuring only has three fewer general proficiencies (excluding adventuring) than a character who doesn't.

A normal human starts with 4 proficiencies - 4 general OR Adventuring

If you start with Adventuring, and become an adventurer, you get your 1st general proficiency at level 1

If you start with 4 general proficiencies, and become an adventurer, you lose 1 when you gain level 1, lose another at level 2, lose another at level 3, lose another at level 4, and gain Adventuring and your 1 from 1st level

I see why you could see that as "Adventuring is worth 3 general proficiencies" but it's not because a normal man can't have Adventuring and 1 other general proficiency. 

 

 

Ooooh, the one general proficiency you start with at first level is a proficiency gained at that level, not one of the proficiencies you had from level 0! That piece of information was the one piece of the puzzle I was missing. Now I finally understand how level 1 characters with fewer than three general proficiencies can exist. Thanks for the explanation, Alex!

Hmm. Now I have another question. Given that adventuring is worth three general proficiencies, is it supposed to be on the general proficiency list where any level 0 ordinary man can learn it for the cost of one general proficiency?

No, you can't learn it for the cost of one. That's just sloppiness on my part!