Bonus build points for human classes

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LyricAsylum
Joined: 2013-05-19 01:26
Bonus build points for human classes

I noticed that the Barbarian build from the Player's Companion has only a d8 Hit Die. I would like to create a Barbarian class with a d10 or d12 Hit Die, but spending those build points in Hit Die means he won't be able to pick Fighter Value 2. 

Since the demi-human races get extra build points in exchange for a lower class level limit, I thought why not give Humans the same abilty? So in my game I'm thinking that Human 1 throught Human 4 grants extra build points in the HD, Fighter, Arcane, Divine and Thief categories. I think Human 0 should give an extra proficiency. The costs can be:

Human 4 1600   4 build points

Human 3 1200    3 build points

Human 2 800    2 build points

Human 1 400    1 build point

Human 0 200.   1 proficiency

 

With this house rule, you can get a Barbarian with a d12 Hit Die and 2 points in Fighter with 1 extra proficiency for Human 2. It's simple to just tack on the better Hit Die and lower the class level limit accordingly.

So a Barbarian with Human 1 puts the extra point in Hit Dice and has a HD of d10, at the cost of lowering his level limit to 12. Or pick Human 2 and buy a d12 Hit Die, lowering the level limit to 11. In either case, you get the extra proficiency for Human 0, which should probably be a class proficiency.

The only real work you need to do after changing the Hit Die, lowering the level limit and picking a proficiency is to redo the experience point progression. Hit Die 10 Barbarians need 3000 XP to reach second level and Hit Die 12 Barbarians need 3400 XP to reach second level.

 

I appreciate any feedback or criticism.

 

cbwjm
Joined: 2017-01-11 22:48

I like this idea but I think I would perhaps lower the XP cost, at least the XP cost of human 0 which I think should be 0 XP if only so that the human classes can be used as is without having to alter their XP tables. Also, if they are spending additional build points, won't the additional build points increase their XP requirements? If a Barbarian is Hit Die 4, Fighting 2, Human 2 then wouldn't their base XP be: 2000 + 1000 + 800 = 3800 to reach 2nd level? Perhaps slightly lowering the XP across the board for human racial build points might be a good idea.

Humans are special in that they can reach level 14 in the standard game, 1 higher than a demihuman who is in a class with 0 build points spent on their race. To represent this, all humans should have a slightly altered level limit table which increases their level by 1, in otherwords, gain the Heroic Spirit ability which increases their maximum level.

Build Points Level Limit
4 9
3 11
2 12
1 13
0 14

 

LyricAsylum
Joined: 2013-05-19 01:26

Thanks for the feedback. I'll probably use your idea of giving them +1 level.

Kenn-the-eagle
Joined: 2013-05-30 00:58

I'd recommend, rather than 1 Class Proficiency, giving Human 0 two General Proficiencies.   This would remove the problem of "disappearing proficiencies" that happen when 0th level humans (who have 4 General Proficiencies) become 1st level anything (who have 1 General, 1 Class, and Adventuring).     

Using my modification to your rule would leave 0th level humans getting 4 General Proficiencies (2 of which are for being Human 0), one of which should be Adventuring if they are going to go adventuring.  Then they would gain 1 Class proficiency and 1st level.

Kenn-the-eagle
Joined: 2013-05-30 00:58

Also, there probably needs to be an alteration to your costing, or an extra rule that deals with the following potential problem:

Two players want to have what amounts to a Paladin-Cleric.  This can be done with 6 build points, due to overlap between the classes (1d6 HP, and a minimum of Fighter 1)  

One player takes a Cleric (1500 XP) pays 800 pts. for Human 2, and uses those additional Build Points to increase Fighter 1a to Fighter 2, and Thief 1, and then duplicates the trading things, etc. giving the Cleric the fighting ability and special powers of a Paladin.  Total 2300 XP

The other player takes a Paladin (1850 XP), pays 800 pt.s for Human 2, and uses those two build points to buy Divine 2 (and alter the Saving Throws, because Divine 2 precedes Fighter 2), giving the Paladin the divine spellcasting of a Cleric (2650 XP)

Two identical classes, two different costs.

Of course, if one just started with 6 build points, the cost would be 2350.   So either the cost of being human needs to vary based on Build Point use, or else a rule needs to be made "If a class can be achieved by two different methods, than the (less/more) expensive cost should be used."

LyricAsylum
Joined: 2013-05-19 01:26

I've decided that Human 0 gives you +1level plus one general or class proficiency, and costs 300 XP.. For 500, 1000, 1500 or 2000, you can buy 1-4 regular build points. That's the default cost for HD and Fighting value, but a discount for Arcane and an overpayment for Divine. The smart player will buy Divine with the 4 free build points and but Arcane with the Human build points. It might not be a perfect system, but I'll use it.

Aryxymaraki
Aryxymaraki's picture
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Joined: 2014-01-04 02:20

Have you considered using the new race build rules in the newest Axioms article?

Just create a 'variant human' race.

On actual build point cost: what I did with half-elves when creating a race that could get any build point (though in limited values) was to charge them the value of the build points chosen, so their racial cost said something like 150 + X. This avoided the problem of overpayment or underpayment.

LyricAsylum
Joined: 2013-05-19 01:26

Have you considered using the new race build rules in the newest Axioms article? Just create a 'variant human' race. On actual build point cost: what I did with half-elves when creating a race that could get any build point (though in limited values) was to charge them the value of the build points chosen, so their racial cost said something like 150 + X. This avoided the problem of overpayment or underpayment.

-Aryxymaraki

 

The only custom race info that I see in the four issues (plus one bonus issue) of Axioms is for beastmen ike Orcs and Bugbears. Can you direct me if I'm missing something? Thanks!

 I like your idea of +X. I might use that too.

Aryxymaraki
Aryxymaraki's picture
Patreon SupporterDomains At War BackerSinister Stone of Sakkara BackerLairs And Encounters Backer
Joined: 2014-01-04 02:20

Have you considered using the new race build rules in the newest Axioms article? Just create a 'variant human' race. On actual build point cost: what I did with half-elves when creating a race that could get any build point (though in limited values) was to charge them the value of the build points chosen, so their racial cost said something like 150 + X. This avoided the problem of overpayment or underpayment.

-Aryxymaraki

 

The only custom race info that I see in the four issues (plus one bonus issue) of Axioms is for beastmen ike Orcs and Bugbears. Can you direct me if I'm missing something? Thanks!

 I like your idea of +X. I might use that too.


-LyricAsylum

It hasn't been compiled into an issue; Axioms is behind on being compiled into issues (both because it's actually behind and because the Patreon fell below the monthly pledge level for that goal, so these newest ones aren't supposed to be compiled).

It's available on Patreon with a pledge, though, as an article rather than as part of a compiled issue (and is the newest one).

LyricAsylum
Joined: 2013-05-19 01:26

 

Have you considered using the new race build rules in the newest Axioms article? Just create a 'variant human' race. On actual build point cost: what I did with half-elves when creating a race that could get any build point (though in limited values) was to charge them the value of the build points chosen, so their racial cost said something like 150 + X. This avoided the problem of overpayment or underpayment.


-Aryxymaraki

 

The only custom race info that I see in the four issues (plus one bonus issue) of Axioms is for beastmen ike Orcs and Bugbears. Can you direct me if I'm missing something? Thanks!

 I like your idea of +X. I might use that too.


-LyricAsylum

It hasn't been compiled into an issue; Axioms is behind on being compiled into issues (both because it's actually behind and because the Patreon fell below the monthly pledge level for that goal, so these newest ones aren't supposed to be compiled). It's available on Patreon with a pledge, though, as an article rather than as part of a compiled issue (and is the newest one).


-Aryxymaraki

 

Thanks for the quick response! What level of pledge is needed to see this article (Adventurer,, Emperor, etc.)?

Aryxymaraki
Aryxymaraki's picture
Patreon SupporterDomains At War BackerSinister Stone of Sakkara BackerLairs And Encounters Backer
Joined: 2014-01-04 02:20

 

Have you considered using the new race build rules in the newest Axioms article? Just create a 'variant human' race. On actual build point cost: what I did with half-elves when creating a race that could get any build point (though in limited values) was to charge them the value of the build points chosen, so their racial cost said something like 150 + X. This avoided the problem of overpayment or underpayment.

-Aryxymaraki

 

The only custom race info that I see in the four issues (plus one bonus issue) of Axioms is for beastmen ike Orcs and Bugbears. Can you direct me if I'm missing something? Thanks!

 I like your idea of +X. I might use that too.

-LyricAsylum

It hasn't been compiled into an issue; Axioms is behind on being compiled into issues (both because it's actually behind and because the Patreon fell below the monthly pledge level for that goal, so these newest ones aren't supposed to be compiled). It's available on Patreon with a pledge, though, as an article rather than as part of a compiled issue (and is the newest one).

-Aryxymaraki

 

Thanks for the quick response! What level of pledge is needed to see this article (Adventurer,, Emperor, etc.)?


-LyricAsylum

I believe Adventurer (the minimum one) will allow you to see the normal articles.

This I am not 100% sure of (and am not an Autarch) so I could be wrong, but I think it'll work!

LyricAsylum
Joined: 2013-05-19 01:26

 

 

Have you considered using the new race build rules in the newest Axioms article? Just create a 'variant human' race. On actual build point cost: what I did with half-elves when creating a race that could get any build point (though in limited values) was to charge them the value of the build points chosen, so their racial cost said something like 150 + X. This avoided the problem of overpayment or underpayment.


-Aryxymaraki

 

The only custom race info that I see in the four issues (plus one bonus issue) of Axioms is for beastmen ike Orcs and Bugbears. Can you direct me if I'm missing something? Thanks!

 I like your idea of +X. I might use that too.


-LyricAsylum

It hasn't been compiled into an issue; Axioms is behind on being compiled into issues (both because it's actually behind and because the Patreon fell below the monthly pledge level for that goal, so these newest ones aren't supposed to be compiled). It's available on Patreon with a pledge, though, as an article rather than as part of a compiled issue (and is the newest one).


-Aryxymaraki

 

 

Thanks for the quick response! What level of pledge is needed to see this article (Adventurer,, Emperor, etc.)?


-LyricAsylum

I believe Adventurer (the minimum one) will allow you to see the normal articles. This I am not 100% sure of (and am not an Autarch) so I could be wrong, but I think it'll work!


-Aryxymaraki

 

Great!!! I'll do the 5 dollar pledge just to be sure.

 

Edit: The one dollar pledge was sufficient. 

LyricAsylum
Joined: 2013-05-19 01:26

I've decided to use the suggestion of +X. So if you take Human 2 and want one HD (500) and one Arcane (625), you pay 1125. Human 0 will cost 400, and give +1 level limit and one general proficiency, plus a +1 bonus to proficiency throws. I borrowed from the Dwarf build.

Alex
The Autarch
Joined: 2011-06-30 18:10

Also, there probably needs to be an alteration to your costing, or an extra rule that deals with the following potential problem:

Two players want to have what amounts to a Paladin-Cleric.  This can be done with 6 build points, due to overlap between the classes (1d6 HP, and a minimum of Fighter 1)  

One player takes a Cleric (1500 XP) pays 800 pts. for Human 2, and uses those additional Build Points to increase Fighter 1a to Fighter 2, and Thief 1, and then duplicates the trading things, etc. giving the Cleric the fighting ability and special powers of a Paladin.  Total 2300 XP

The other player takes a Paladin (1850 XP), pays 800 pt.s for Human 2, and uses those two build points to buy Divine 2 (and alter the Saving Throws, because Divine 2 precedes Fighter 2), giving the Paladin the divine spellcasting of a Cleric (2650 XP)

Two identical classes, two different costs.

Of course, if one just started with 6 build points, the cost would be 2350.   So either the cost of being human needs to vary based on Build Point use, or else a rule needs to be made "If a class can be achieved by two different methods, than the (less/more) expensive cost should be used."


-Kenn-the-eagle

This is a problem that occurs with Nobirans as well, and in Barbarian Conquerors also affects Geckomen builds in certain circumstances. I haven't quite decided the best way to handle it, although your suggestion above is pretty darn good.

Jard
Patreon SupporterDomains At War ContributorSinister Stone of Sakkara ContributorLairs And Encounters Contributor
Joined: 2012-07-11 23:23

For my campaign I actually built the fighter-cleric by adding Nobiran 2 to the paladin class.  I came in at around 2475XP to get to level 2.